I am Laura Amato of Laura's Playground a Transgender, Transsexual Support Site. I also run Laura's HBS is not Transsexual it's Intersexed Web site I am a diagnosed Transsexual and have had it as my first memory.at age 4. Our main mission is to lower the Transsexual (HBS) and Transgender suicide rate as well as keeping our people from making serious surgical mistakes who do not qualify for SAS. As you know Transgender people are sometimes confused into thinking they are Transsexual. On the other hand Some Transsexual people do have it but don't know they do sometimes to other underlying mental conditions including Bi-polar and DID/MP among others. This any Gender therapist can confirm as well as the Doctors and Therapist who wrote the HBIGDA (Wpath) Standards of Care.

I started this HBS site because I was excited about your work. I admired you. I have used the same Transsexual Research on LP long before HBS was born in the summer of 2005. You and I agree about many things on HBS. or I would never have presented it here. Since you used Harry Benjamin's name in your syndrome Many assumed you had done this with approval by his copyright. Many also assumed that you had taken over The Standards of Care from HBIGDA. This is not true. The HBIGDA Standards were approved by a Committee of Doctors and Therapists. Your Medical Standards of Care have no such signatures and were authored by you, not Qualified Professionals. This is practicing medicine without a license. You claimed to have Professional signatures agreeing with you on HBS. Investigation shows that the documents are on "Transsexualism" not HBS. This is true of all the HBS research.

I went to the Harry Benjamin Syndrome Yahoo Group and was shocked at what I found. Members were diagnosing others as having or not having HBS. Isn't that a Doctor or Therapists job? Certainly no one was claiming professional qualifications. Even you joined in on this. Some wrongly told users they did not need therapy. This is dangerous and irresponsible. Others were dismissed as Transgendered, fetishists and perverts. If that was the case therapy should have been advised to them, not name calling. Of those diagnosed by your group, 4 had been diagnosed as Transsexuals years ago by Gender Therapists and 3 had already obtained SAS. All 4 have had it done now. One was told because they were married this alone made them Transgendered even though HBIGDA professionals dropped the divorce requirement years ago for Transsexuals. Who is the medical doctor or therapist in your group?

What I found among your members was judgment, not help. There was more name calling and blaming of Transgenders in general and Transgender sites. Let's see you called them "perverts" and "fetishists" And attempt to dismiss the term Transgender in your Terminology on your site, like they don't exist. Even you Charlotte cannot erase an entire group when one genocidal swoop. As any therapist will tell you Transgendered and Transvestites are a lot more complicated then you think. They can't be denigrated and described with the two unsavory terms you lambast them with. Information about HBS is often overshadowed by your blatant discrimination of the Transgendered. I did a search in your group for the term TRansgendered, fetishist and pervert. Try it. I came up with thousands for each term. If it wern't for the titles on each page and in every post those terms were mentioned more often then HBS was. I referred many to your groups and your site and told them to ask questions. Every time they did they were called Transgendered. One post even said that Transgenders were masturbating but didn't use that accepted term. Then you say you get a raw deal on TG sites and that no one listens to you. On both my sites that has never happened and everyone was treated with respect. People who ask simple Questions are always called Transgendered on your site. Even medical non-ops are TG's to you. That's just wrong. You don't have the right to judge, only a therapist or Doctor does. On my site we judge no one. I'm a Transsexual (HBS) who helps Transgender people too. It's the human thing to do. They need help not dismissal. There problems are real and complex. If you heard the thousands of sad stories I have heard you would not be calling them names. They are people too who I am proud to serve. I suppose that must make me Transgender in your eyes.

My site was denigrated in your group too. I'm sorry you think Playground is a dirty term.(that figures) When I thought of it I thought it was a place for children. Where else would send people who are going through a second puberty? When we go through it part of us are children going through that puberty on their way to becoming an affirmed man or woman. Many of us had terrible childhoods or don't you remember yours? Our mission is to save Transgendered and Transsexuals (HBS) from killing themselves. No other site does this. YOUR reply is I'm on an "ego trip". We also try to stop people from making serious mistakes. Our users are grateful for our support and many are alive because of it. I am proud of that and my staff. Many of them were relieved when paramedics arrived just in the nick of time. Some moderators volunteer to do 18 hours in our crisis rooms daily. Does that sound like ego? Or are you just embarrased that you do nothing to prevent suicide in our groups. I put the disclaimer on my site because many users took your Standards of Care to be "MEDICAL ADVICE" whether you intended that or not. I certainly care about my users and don't want to see them come to harm from believing that something is medically approved when it is not. You agreed to put a disclaimer on your site. So we agree. Did You put the warning up??

I agree with you on HBS's basic concepts. It is well done, Charlotte. However if you really hope for it to replace HBIGDA version 6 with your own there are serious issues to be addressed.

First the name HArry Benjamin is already licensed to his Research Institute and HBIGDA. If you don't have permission to use it you will have problems later on.

Second your "Standards of Care" need to be labeled a Proposal. They are not medically approved Standards yet.

HBS wants to stop the Transgendered from encroaching on their territory HBS has to do the same without denigration.

Certainly explain the differences between HBS and TG but without the sexual commentary and judgements. Recommend Therapy if they don't have HBS. As we know only those with Hbs have no mental problems and are pure of mind and body. It;s funny but right wing fundamentalists claim the same thing.

Restore the title Transgendered that you dismissed. They do have a right to exist. HBS is not about being Transgendered anyway. Why use the term so often? Concentrate more on what HBS is, not what it isn't. This would give HBS a positive rather than a negative image. Stop bashing them. Leave them alone and let them live in peace. Don't use their name in every other word especially in your group. Don't put down Transgendered sites that support the users who need them. They work too hard to be put into unsavory categories. My site has no sexual content whatsoever on it for instance. You imply that it does.

Over 50 Therapists asked to be removed from our HBS therapist list because of the blatant discrimnation and name calling in HBS Information. Remember that Therapists often have TG as well as TS or HBS patients. If Therapists don't like you you won't get approved. So far they deem you as too negative.

You need to get professionals like Doctors and Therapists on your side. You need to get them on board for HBS not just Transsexualism. If a doctor signed a document on Transsexualism it DOES NOT MEan he is on board for HBS. You claim that it does.

DO NOT call Transsexuals who disagree with you Transgendered. You and the group are not qualified to judge others. If they are transsexual you are insulting them.

STOP DIAGNOSING people visitng in your group. You are not qualified to do so. Think what damage you can do if you are wrong. Even death by suicide is possible if you misdiagnose the wrong person.

Believe it or not I am on the side of HBS and support it as do many of my users. We are not your enemy. I think once you make the above changes you will find more acceptance in all communities. You can attract a lot more with honey than you can with vinegar. What's more important is HBS will be more palatable to the professionals that HBS really needs. It;s time to make peace not war Charlotte. I guarantee you lots of support from all quarters if you change the tone of HBS.

Laura Amato
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Laura's Playground and HBS proposal site.

Dear Laura,

As you are a registered Member of this group, I reply you via this group.

My site tries to be realistical with current definitions in line with social reality. The fact is that things aren't the same today than fifty years ago. The term "transsexual" has been appropiated for lots of transgender people, making of both terms "transgender" and "transsexual" interchangeable ones to reflect the same personal's state (ie. Wpath).

Harry Benjamin's name is not a trademark owned by someone, is an honourable name in the history of Medicine, not one own rights of his name. Not the former HBIGDA own it neither. Not one can own a "license" of a Name and medical work.

Of course the official Standards of Care are the ones dictated by the WPATH, former HBIGDA, and are the only ones that should be taken in care by doctors treating HBS today. The HBS-SOC of my site are of course not made for any medical professional organization, as its I think clear, the page is copyrighted by me, not by a medical association. They are however needed as a proposal for proper revision of the current ones, into line with current medical research.

I'll re-write the title of the page as you request, in order to write "Proposal Standars of Care", I agree with you on this.

Medical Research on Transsexualism is medical research on HBS. Transsexualism = Harry Benjamin's Syndrome.

However Transsexuality and Transgenderism are NOT equal to Harry Benjamin's Syndrome. Please do (carefully) read these pages for further understanding of this very important linguistic differences: http://shb-info.org/id19.html and http://shb-info.org/retrospective.html

My work is focused in updating the old and inappropiate term Transsexualism to Harry Benjamin's Syndrome. It has not relationship with transsexuality or transgenderism.

About the hostility against transgenders, while its true that some comments wrote in this group and in other forums had been a bit hard against transgender people, and I don't personally support attacks of any kind, its also true that people born with HBS needs to affirmate themselves as group, and part of this affirmation proccess undoubtely involves transgender confrontation, as we are a very minority politically trapped in transgender waters. Furthermore, they've been them Transgenders who more attacked us, most of the time by completely negating the legitimacy of people born with HBS's Right to declare themselves people born with HBS and not transgenders. Please remember that TG people are a huge amount, while people with HBS (genuine Transsexualism) are a very minority. I dont support attacks but in any direction, and we are suffering lots of unfair attacks from transgenders through the web. To focus in HBS as you says, it includes affirmate ourselves as group of people born with HBS, and given the fact that transgenders continually tries to keep us attached to their political community purposes (ie. Wpath) its understable that the TG debate arises once and again among HBS people.

My site and group is exclusively focused on HBS, not in transgenderism. This is the key difference about our sites. But I am sorry if some personal opinions of some members of this group about your site, they were considered "denigrating" in some way for you, I don't think they were intended in this way, and I dont support attacks in any of the two directions.

Please, do understand that many women and men with HBS feel viciously trapped in the TG world, and in their normal anger and impotence by this, they express a big discomfort with this in the very few places available on internet where they can do it without being censured or banned, but they are expressing themselves in their own HBS circle. Worst has been many of the insults and personal attacks and humilliations suffered by HBS girls and boys in TG forums, as you can see in early posts. With this I am not justifying the high tone of some comments posted here, but please do try to understand the social and TG pressure that these youngters are suffering, and the total lack of adequate forums and spaces for them available on the internet.

Laura, transgender people have the same right to exist as us. They are transgenders who seem not understand this, not us.

Not one is diagnosing anything here, this is just a support group. Please do say to PennyJane that she is welcome to my group (as you always are too), and I send her my apologies for the misunderstandings of some posts when she joined. Those days I haven't time enough to interfere to clarify things and I was in fact surprised to see PennyJane leaving the group, without even know what happened...

Transsexuals who identify openly as "transsexuals", are part of the transgender world.

Harry Benjamin's Syndrome is not transsexual, is Intersexual.

I am open to build a healthy bridge of understanding between us, please dont take this as a war. Its not intended to be a war, but the HBS movement is just emerging, and confrontation is a result more of a group's identity Affirmation rather than due to any other thing...

Please do reply if you like to me, via this group (apart also that from your own forums) to keep noticed about your reply, and I would like to ask you to please correct my Name "Charlotte T Guren" in your site and forums for "Charlotte Goiar". Thank you in advance.

Huggles and Loves,

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Charlotte Goiar.

The Original HBS Site

http://shb-info.org/hbs.html

Thank you Charlotte for your reply. I will certainly correct your name on the site. May I offer my apologies as it was not intentional.

First of all I am on your side. I believe in the basic principles of HBS. If I did not I wouldn't have created a separate site for it. Rather than rewrite hundreds of pages on LP whose main mission is suicide prevention in all groups, it made more sense to give those with HBS their own community. On LP certain changes have already been instituted with many references to HBS and it's terminology. On such a large site it takes time to move from one genre to another. Certainly it
makes no sense to dismantle a support system that saves many lives daily. Besides we have an Alexa ranking of 633,198 which is out of the billion or so web sites on the planet. It would be foolish to throw that away. So Laura's Playground has a good chance of getting the HBS message out. My HBS site on the other hand ranks closer to the rear end of the graph. Few people search for HBS. That needs to change.

LP gets over 1500 visitors a day as well as over 700 emails a day after spam. Between all those contacts and the chat transcripts and forums I read daily I can spot trends and get to listen to many differing opinions and problems. Also in my mail are requests and opinions of medical doctors and Psychologists.

Since you have agreed that the HBS SOC should be listed as a proposal there is only one more issue that we have which is the overall presentation of HBS. Whether the practice is right or not appearances are everything. I can have the greatest idea in the world but if I don't present it right my proposal is not going to get very far. Public perception is also important. Documents need to be politically correct. If I am presenting research documents for instance the research
speaks for itself. If I inject negative comment, slurs, sexual comments or disparaging remarks about other people or minority groups into my documents, it is unlikely that I will get a positive response, no matter how good my work is. Top companies now fire people over disparaging remarks and professionals shun work with such comments. An actor here was fired from a top rated TV show for uttering a simple slur against a gay actor because the public reacted in a negative way. When such
remarks are spoken by people in the public eye the populace' reaction and judgment is swift and negative. When politicians do it, it's called a scandal. HBS is in the publics eye.

I want HBS to succeed. So I am concerned that negativity is holding it back. The point was missed about 50 therapists withdrawing their names from my HBS site care list and the importance of that.
Whether you like therapists or not their opinion will be counted when DSM V comes up for approval. None of them had any problem with the research done or concepts of HBS. Many agreed with it. They cited the disparaging remarks and the hatefulness they felt the documents contained against the Transgendered. If they perceived that message others may too. I brought this to your attention to show a trend. I thought you would like to know. When there is such a large professional group that could be allies, turning negative comments into positive ones is hardly a big concession.

Charlotte we are not that far apart on the issues. I respect you and the work that you are doing. I comment only because i want to see HBS succeed. Failure is not an option. If there is anything I can do to promote your work on either of my sites just ask. While I do understand that you've had a hard time on some transgender sites you will not get that treatment on mine. All that is asked is that everyone's views be respected.

Laura Amato
Laura's Playground and HBS sites

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To the HBS group:

I regret I do not have the time to respond to everyone here however there are some points I'd like to address:

I am certainly not trying to dictate how the group is run. How it's run is up to the owner of the group. What you say and how you say it is up to you. I will tell you what I tell my own users on my site.

"The Internet is not a private place it is public. One link is all it takes for news and ideas to get around fast. Chances are the public will see what you post. As part of a group each individual's posts reflect on all of us and contributes to how the public perceives us. Act as you would in a public place and post accordingly as you would talking to people face to face". As HBS gets more accepted and word spreads, your support group will see more traffic then ever and it already has. What they see posted here can either enhance or destroy an entire concept and a reputation. So how you treat those who have HBS or those who don't have it here has eventual consequences. Users will of course report what they found on their home sites which will draw more people here who will judge for themselves. It's really up to you if users leave here with a positive or negative view of HBS. It all depends how you want to be perceived. Downgrading and disparaging entire groups does not look positive to others. Differences can be promoted in civilized ways.

As to comments about me being Transgenderist it is not the case. I am from the school of sticks and stones. Calling everyone who disagrees with you one is childish. Because I have HBS does not mean
that I suddenly have to stop getting along with others or change relationships. That means if I don't discriminate in suicide prevention on my site against the transgendered that I suddenly am labeled something else. Life is life no matter what group someone belongs to. Each one is
precious.

Laura Amato